Chris Huettig - Seal and Repair in any Weather - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Chris Huettig of KARNAK. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Hello everyone. My name is Megan Ellsworth. You're at coatingscoffeeshop.com and you are listening to a CoatingsCast podcast episode. I'm here with our friend Chris from Karnak. Hello, how are you? 

Chris Huettig: I'm doing great, Megan. How are you? 

Megan Ellsworth: I'm also great. I'm excited to hear all about the Karna-Seal 671 today and  you guys are relaunching at IRE this product, so I'm excited. Can you tell us a little bit about you and introduce yourself? 

Chris Huettig: Yeah. Thanks for giving us the opportunity. My name is Chris Huettig. I'm the Vice President of Technical Services at Karnak. I've been at Karnak for about 26 years, been in the roofing industry for 30, loved every minute of it and  really excited to talk about coatings and sealants. It's really the passion of Karnak's business is that repair and maintenance and  this new product we're going to relaunch, talk about fits right in that space for us. 

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, this is exciting. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about Karnak's origins and how the company and its products have evolved over the years to start us out? 

Chris Huettig: Yeah. It's a really fun company that we're family owned and  that is very unique, especially in the large construction business to have that. But our story began in 1933. Martin Jelin, his name, is the original founder of Karnak. Martin, he was a waterproofing contractor and  one of his company's jobs was waterproofing the Holland and the Lincoln Tunnel going to New York in the 30s, which how cool of an iconic project is that to be able to do that? 

Megan Ellsworth: Wow. 

Chris Huettig: So in doing that, one of the products he used was a fabric, because back in the day then it was fabric, asphalt, fabric, asphalt, just redundant layers, that's about all we had. And the fabric was called Karnak and  it was from a supplier called Lewis Asphalt Engineering. When he was doing this project, he was late in some of the work he was doing because he couldn't get that fabric fast enough. So when he looked into it, the company that made it was fledgling, they weren't doing well. And you know what? It must've been an aha moment in his life where he thought, you know what? I'm going to get out of this contracting business, it's tough and  I'm going to look at borrowing some money. I think it was $10,000 total investment. And he bought Lewis Asphalt Engineering and the product Karnak. So he liked the Karnak name so much because it really speaks to the temple of Karnak over in Luxor, Egypt. 

Those pyramids in the temple were built thousands and thousands of years ago and  they've survived flooding. And also, in history, that's the first recorded use, they say, the Pharaohs using bitumen as a sealant between stones. So he thought, what a great name of a product, but what a great name of a company to be able to name it after these structures that have been here for thousands of years to be a testament to the quality and durability of the product. So that was ingenious to do that and  it really is cool today. So today, his daughter, Sarah Jane Jelin, is our president and CEO. And Sarah Jane's son Jacob. He's involved in the company as well. And that's that third generation that just keeps us going along. So it's pretty cool to be involved in a company like that. 

Megan Ellsworth: Oh, that's really cool. I had no idea the origins behind the name and that the Egyptians were the first to use a sort of bitumen. That is really cool. You learn something new truly every day. That's really neat. 

Chris Huettig: Absolutely. 

Megan Ellsworth: And I love a family business, I'm a little prejudiced, but I think that is just really a special thing that is very unique to this industry with multi-generational businesses and  the fact that his children and grandchildren are still involved in the company is incredible. So that's really cool. 

Chris Huettig: Absolutely. 

Megan Ellsworth: So what trends are you seeing today, particularly when it comes to sealants and coatings for roof repairs? 

Chris Huettig: Well, we do a lot of trainings on repairs and teaching contractors here's the types of roofs out there, because not every part of the country has every type of roof system out there. So one of the things we see is contractors not understanding maybe what sealants are good for different substrates. 30 years ago there was more asphalt than anything, so everybody was familiar with asphalt in the can and figured I can put it on it, I'm going to be able to seal it. But today the trends are we have a lot more single-ply membranes out there and we have a lot more diversity away from asphalt. 

So one is having the right product to seal those types of surfaces, but also having a product that's got more versatility. So when we come up with products, we always try to push the envelope, add different chemicals, raw materials, things that can enhance the product, so it's got more than just one specific use. So I think that is very helpful. And with that, contractors not only want a versatile product, but they want a product that's going to be for, say, perfect conditions, it's dry outside, but also when the weather's bad, because people don't call about leaks unless it's raining outside and  it's the easiest time to find a leak is when it is raining. So they need products that are going to be able to stick to wet surfaces out there. So those two things, along with having products that are just durable, long-lasting, that will give that contractor a good feeling and help protect their reputation that they put out there for building owners, they want to use products that coincide and do the same thing and share those same values. 

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, with the water, the products that you're able to apply whilst wet, while the roof is wet, that's so important for these repair jobs and maintenance jobs. That leads us in what is Karna-Seal 671 and why was it developed for these occasions? 

Chris Huettig: Well, it's a single component product, it's a single component moisture-curing 100% silicone that's used for making repairs, that has a lot of uses for it. And one of the things contractors also like are products that they don't need to open up and mix and add something to it. This is a single component product, so it just, again, makes it easier on crews that crews are switching. Today, somebody's doing job A today, they're on job B and  on Wednesday they're going to be sealing something. So having a product that's going to just be easy for them to understand is very helpful and  we made that with the 671 Karna-Seal. 

It's a very easy product to use, to work with and  one of the reasons why we wanted to develop, it was developed because we needed a silicone sealant. We had this in the background, we just didn't bring it out yet and  I think I'll talk about that in a few minutes as to why, but it's a product that many cases we're finding into there's a lot of silicone out there, so the contractors are needing a silicone sealant to make those repairs, because only silicone is going to stick to silicone. 

Megan Ellsworth: Exactly. So what would you say are some of the key benefits of using this product because only silicone sticks to silicone? 

Chris Huettig: Well, the first thing is it gives them a solution that they don't have to guess or have to do some crazy things to actually repair a roof that's already been silicone coated or that's got silicone sealant on it. That's the big driver there and the reason why we create this product to actually put out there. It does some other great things too is that it allows them to work in situations that maybe they didn't know what they were using at the time, they didn't know the types of products to use out there and  we're using products that weren't performing long-term for them. The silicone sealant is a wonderful product. 

Other benefits, it resists ponding water. There's so many times these critical repairs are in a ponding condition or around a drain bowl or a scupper, someplace that water just doesn't drain off well and  this allows them to make that repair and  it's going to be a permanent repair onto that roof there and  it's not going to degrade. It's going to bond to the substrate, it's low VOC, which is very good, low odor, so they can use it in a number of different instances where that might be an issue. And, again, as an emergency repair, it will stick to a wet surface. So if they're doing emergency repair work, they can still do that with the 671 Karna-Seal. 

Megan Ellsworth: That's awesome. And the no fumes is huge. School buildings, office buildings, medical facilities, you don't want those fumes going into the air ducts and going throughout the building. That's a nice added detail to that product. 

Chris Huettig: Absolutely. 

Megan Ellsworth: Okay. So can you dive a little deeper into how the Karna-Seal 671 handles prolonged sun exposure in other environmental stressors? 

Chris Huettig: Sure. In thinking about that question, you can get kind of geeky on it, but I think the product... So I'll try to make it as simple as possible. We do weathering tests on this, in accelerated weathering and  really silicone itself manufactured with silicon is just a product that has excellent UV resistance. Our accelerated aging shows no chalking or cracking of the material, which is awesome to see because it's almost like the sealant is almost more durable, a lot of times in some of the substrates it's going over. It doesn't shrink or crack over time, which helps keep things water tight. And that's really the reason why it's so important to use the product and to use it and to have trust in it, because whatever their ceiling, the product itself won't fail and it won't chalk and  it's got such a wide temperature use as well, which helps it from other stresses. The service temperature range of Karna-Seal is negative 75 degrees Fahrenheit to 385. Roofs should never be going to those temperature ranges. 

Megan Ellsworth: Wow. Yeah. 

Chris Huettig: Most roofs don't, but every once in a while you may get a pipes that come out of a roof that are warmer than they should be and  knowing the ceiling can take some pretty high temperatures, higher temperatures than, like I said, normal roofing materials that are on those roofs as well, it just gives you some added insurance that this product is really going to stand up for long durability. 

Megan Ellsworth: Well and  also those roofing companies up there in Minnesota, Wisconsin, when maybe they have an emergency call and they need to get to a roof and repair it quick and, hey, maybe it's minus 10 outside. 

Chris Huettig: You have to work sometimes in some very strange conditions and you need products that can allow you to do that. 

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, totally. Okay. So when it comes to using the Karna-Seal 671, how simple is the application process and  are there any tips for contractors to ensure they're getting the best results? 

Chris Huettig: Yeah, the product is really easy to use. We manufacture Karna-Seal, it's in a two and a half gallon plastic bucket. I like the plastic bucket because the lids come off nice and they can go back very nice and tight. Using it is simply opening it up and then using your trowel or brush to pull it out of there and apply it to the substrate. Now, what they do want to be mindful of is the substrate itself. You're making a repair on a roof that's existing and it's been out there, so it's going to have dirt, could have chalking, oxidation, things like that on it. So like any sealant, you want to start with a clean surface, so you want to wipe the sealant clean. I typically suggest denatured alcohol. It's a very mild solvent, it's a great solvent to clean a surface and remove some of the dirt and contaminants and  it's easy to get. 

Or they can use other oil-free solvents as well. Any of those are going to help remove dirt. And sometimes when you have a surface, you could have some just condensation. If you're making repair to an existing silicone roof, it's white and you might have some dew from the morning that just doesn't evaporate off because the roof stays so cool. Well, best practice is to get that water off and  using a solvent like denatured alcohol just helps to evaporate any of that little water that might be on that surface. You're going to open the container. Now, this is a product that is moisture curing. So, again, maybe it's a little different than other sealants, but if anybody who's applied silicone coating, they have to do and think about the same things. It's moisture curing, so as soon as I open it, air is going to get to it and  wherever there's air, there's humidity and  that triggers that curing process. 

So to help the use of that and the long-term stability of the product in the bucket, we also put a plastic liner laying on top. It's a thick plastic. I typically will just peel that plastic back that allows me to just go right in, do my repair. As I'm doing my repair, again, we always recommend using fabric. Fabric reinforcement helps bridge over cracks and gaps and allows you to fill those so that that repair stays nice and tight. I think that's a key. Some products out there, they'll say, "You don't need fabric." Our experience, our history and  we're not the only ones, I've seen plenty of people in the industry back me up on this, fabric reinforcement is always a good idea to have. It's not going to hurt anything and  it's just going to make sure you seal that crack where it's watertight for a long time. That's going to be your repair. You'll still do the Karna-Seal polyester fabric and Karna-Seal and  then when you're done, put the plastic back, the lid back on top and  you'll be able to use that same product for a number of weeks after that. 

Megan Ellsworth: That's awesome. I love that you can reseal it and you don't have to obviously use it all in one fell swoop for one job, you have it for a few weeks and  it's nice that you guys thought of all the little things. It's in a plastic bucket, easy to use, easy to take the top off, easy to keep the humidity out with the plastic lining. I think that is something that sets Karnak apart in a lot of the little things that you guys think about. 

Chris Huettig: Yeah. These products cost money and  we want to see a contractor when they open a bucket, can, whatever it is, be able to use 100% of that. We don't want to see it go into a landfill, it's all part about sustainability and  we want to keep that in everything we think about. 

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, I love that. I think that's great. So as silicone coated roofs are becoming more common, why would you say is Karna-Seal 671 so compatible with these systems? 

Chris Huettig: Well, that's a good question and  one of the things we did in the chemistry of it is really put a very aggressive adhesion promoter package. Those adhesion promoters in the product allow it to stick to so many different substrates. While we promote Karna-Seal for really repairing existing silicone out there, that's where we want to use it. But it's also able to be used directly to smooth built-up asphalt, modified bitumen, TPO, PVC, EPDM, metal concrete, so just about every substrate you're going to have out there. But also more importantly, which is cool, it sticks aggressively and well to our own silicone, but also other industry produced silicones out there as well. So it really makes it a goof proof, if you want to say, product for when you need something that's going to be able to stick to what you have out there. 

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, it plays well with everybody on the playground, which is nice. 

Chris Huettig: Exactly. 

Megan Ellsworth: That's something you want in a product. So can you explain how Karna-Seal 671 resists issues like ponding water, cracking and  chalking? 

Chris Huettig: Yeah, here's where it might get a little bit nerdy in some of this, so I'll try to keep it out. 

Megan Ellsworth: I like the nerdy. 

Chris Huettig: Karna-Seal, it's a high solid silicone based product. So high solids means it's got a lot of silicone in it, very minimal fillers or other things that would be needed in it. Silicone sealants and coatings, they resist ponding water to their unique properties, which helps them in these situations of why they're so durable. Silicone is inherently hydrophobic, so it means it repels water, it doesn't like water, it won't swell. So from that, it doesn't absorb any moisture, which allows it, when you put it down, to really stay true to itself, it stays in form and  it resists any passage of water into it or through it. It also is a flexible product, so Karna-Seal has its flexibility. So besides not allowing water in, it also is able to expand and contract with temperature changes that it's not going to crack at all. It just adds to the durability of it. 

The chemical structure of silicone, a lot of people may or may not know about, but it's really a product that is really ultra resistant to UV radiation. So compared to other sealants and coatings, which are made with carbon based materials, silicone is not a carbon based material. It's made with silicon, which is a mineral, a rock and  it's very UV resistant, so it doesn't degrade in UV, so you don't get the chalking, you don't get the yellowing, you don't get the shrinkage of it. It really adds to the durability of the product too. 

Megan Ellsworth: Well, that's awesome. I didn't know that silicon had all those natural things to it. That's great that we found this great thing that works on roofs. 

Chris Huettig: Absolutely. Yeah, it's really neat. 

Megan Ellsworth: Okay. Why should contractors and building owners use this product? 

Chris Huettig: Absolutely, yeah, we'd love contractors to come by and ask us about the product. We want to teach them. We're going to have the product there. We will have it that they can open it up, they can feel it and  spread it themselves if they'd like to. 

Megan Ellsworth: That's great. 

Chris Huettig: [inaudible 00:19:29] samples of it so they can get a feel of what it looks like once it's been applied and cured out there, we'll do some demos of it as well and  they can learn about the Karna-Seal, how it's used, maybe how they want to fit it into their business. I think every repair truck out there, you're going to come across silicone at some point. It's just proven in the industry. We see it, the numbers, there's millions of gallons of silicone going down every year, year after year. If they haven't seen it yet, when they go make a repair, they're going to run into a place where the roof is going to have a silicone sealant or coating and  they're going to have to have a product like this. Nothing else is going to stick. No matter what they think they have that would, it's got to be silicone, so they need to know how to use it. 

So we can talk about that. We can share with them our other great sealants and how maybe in some instances they might be a preferred choice over others. Most importantly, we're friendly people. We're fun people. We're just down to earth. We want to help them. And we're interested in not just selling our product, but we're interested in helping them grow their business. And a product like a Karna-Seal is just going to help them do that. The better they're able to handle their customers, the more important they are and  the more beneficial we become to them as suppliers of these great quality products. 

Megan Ellsworth: Absolutely and  I can attest that the Karnak people are the best people. Y'all are so fun and so nice and  you always have a really great hospitality party at IRE. I went to your anniversary party a few years ago and it was so, so fun. You guys, you just make the best products and you really are just so, so great for the industry, for your contractors. You want the best for everybody. So I really appreciate that about Karnak. 

Chris Huettig: For anyone who comes by and wants to learn about our products, we're very humble that they think of us as a potential someone they want to do business with. And we don't take it lightly. And, again, we're trying to just give them the best advice, best experience that we see out there of our many years in the business to help them do their jobs better. 

Megan Ellsworth: Awesome. Okay. Everyone out there listening, you can learn more about the Karna-Seal 671 and all Karnak's products on their directory on coatingscoffeeshop.com. They also just did a coatings talk, so go check that out. You can learn more about their other sealants and products on that, so go check it out. And we'll see you next time on CoatingsCast. 

Chris Huettig: See you in San Antonio, Megan. Take care. 

Outro: Awesome. Thank you, Chris.